Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Noisy rocker arms in a rebuilt AMC 304 Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Noisy rocker arms in a rebuilt AMC 304

    I had a 1978 AMC 340 engine completely rebuilt.

    After I installed it in my J10 truck, I ran the engine at about 2000 RPM to break in the cam. Timing was at this time top dead center.

    Didn't really drive the truck much because I had been working on getting the timing right, and trying to get the motor to respond to the throttle without hesitating. I set the timing to 8~10 degrees ahead the engine would start good and didn't hesitate when it was cold. I could not and still can't hook up the vacuum advance. With the vacuum advance connected, the engine will idle, but if you give it gas it shuts off. Reading up on it, I probability have been installing it on the wrong vacuum port. I've been leaving it disconnected.

    I only would drive the truck short distances and kept the speed under 50 MPH.

    The rocker arms have always rattled when the engine is running. If you rev the engine and release the throttle the rockers will rattle and then quiet up, but still lightly tapping.

    One day I decided to drive the truck about 10 miles on the highway, averaging a speed of about 55 to at times 60 MPH. My axles are 4.10's. Several of the push rods began to make very loud rapping noises. I slowed the truck down to 50 MPH or less and drove the truck home.

    It was suggested the push rods were too short. I removed the valve covers and inspected the rocker arms and push rods.
    some of the push rods were bent slightly, the rocker arm guides on a few of the cylinders were quite worn.
    At the time it was also through that the timing at the higher RPM may have exceeded the cam timing causing pressure on the valve train not allowing the valves to open causing the push rods to bend. I also measured the straight push rods and found them to be at different lengths.
    I reset the timing to 3 degrees ahead. I replaced the rocker arm guides and installed new push rods. The same length as originally installed when the motor was rebuilt.
    I drove the truck to the shop where the engine was rebuilt and asked for suggestions on what to do with the rocker arm noise. It was suggested to install longer push rods. I called the cam manufacture Ericson Cams and explained my concern. They suggested to increase the push rod length by .100".
    I decided to go with .050" longer. The replacement push rods are 7.850" long.
    As I installed the push rods, I noticed the valves being pushed down as I tightened the bolts.
    The engine cranked as usual and started up. The lifters still rattle as before.

    When I drive down the road the engine sounds like a sewing machine. The rocker arms quiet down while I'm sitting at a red light. And rattle away when I drive off.

    It was suggested the oil pressure gauge, since its electric, may be off and not giving me the correct pressure reading. I installed a manual gauge to verify the pressure reading. 73lbs cold high idle, when warmed up, I have 20lbs at an idle, and rev up the engine and get 50 to 60 lbs of pressure. When the warm engine is idling you can see the pressure pulse as the engine fires on each cylinder.

    Today I removed the valve covers and rotated the engine so I could measure each push rod length. To do this I rotated the engine so each cylinder I was checking had both valves closed, The piston may not be at the top, but it should be on compression stroke. I used an adjustable push rod to remove the play.

    Here are my results:
    #1 E 7.720"
    I 7.693"
    #3 I 7.686"
    E 7.715"
    #5 E 7.717"
    I 7.692"
    #7 I 7.700"
    E 7.700"
    #2 E 7.718"
    I 7.697"
    #4 I 7.695"
    E 7.704"
    #6 E 7.728"
    I 7.695"
    #8 I 7.702
    E 7.746

    After seeing the first few measurements I reinstalled the 7.800" push rods. the 7.850" push rods are two long.

    The cam I had installed is called a RV cam. the grind number is E710012. The cam cam with lifters and valve springs.

    I'm thinking I may not have the correct lifters. I have read where some people have received lifters for a Chrysler engine rather that an AMC engine. The cam is the same , but the lifters are not??

    Could I have the wrong lifters?

    I went to Advance auto parts and asked to see if they had replacement lifters for an AMC 304 engine. They did, but the lifter they showed me has a thin grove high up on the lifter. Near the top. The spring in the lifter was also easy to push on with your finger. The lifters in my 304 are hard to push down.(Maybe because of the oil inside.) I thought the AMC lifters have a wide grove around the middle.

    Any ideas of what is wrong with this engine?

    Less than 150 miles on the engine at this time.

  • #2
    I bought an automotive stethoscope to listen to my engine.
    I found the valves and lifters were not making the noise.
    I placed the stethoscope on the valve cover near each valve. I could here a slight ticking that remained the same, but quicker as I reved the engine and as the engine returned to idle.
    I placed the stethoscope on the head near each spark plug. I could here each time the cylinder fired as I reved the engine. execpt for cylinder #7. It seems to have some low tone rattle mixed in with the firing of the cylinder.
    I had my son check under the engine. He couldn't here anything while checking around the bottom of the block.

    Does piston slap sound like a loose metallic rattle?

    It sounds like somthing bouncing around when you release the throttle. Then become a ticking sound like a bad lifter. If it idles long enough it will quiet some, but rev the engine and its right back.

    Comment


    • #3
      piston slap does have a metallic sound, as does a worn wrist pin. I would pull the spark plugs and take a look at the top of each piston to make sure you don't have something bouncing around in there. Also, take a look at the exhaust and make sure you don't have any leaks (they can sound a lot like valve clatter).

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm wondering if I have a broken piston ring, broken piston skirt, or an egg shaped piston rist pin hole. The engine doesn't have a miss or seem to have a weak cylinder and isn't smoking at all.

        I need to take it to a good shop and see what they can figure out.
        I don't have a garage to work in.

        Comment


        • #5
          you can buy an inexpensive cylinder pressure tester and see if all the cylinders are within 10% of each other; that would tell you if you have a broken piston ring / etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            I took the truck to the engine builder.
            He suggested I yank the engine, so he can be take it apart.
            "I hate to do things twice."
            He believes the lifters are still the problem through.
            He said he would get another set of lifters, and determine if there is any difference between the AMC lifter and a Chrysler lifter.
            I believe the lifter I saw at Advanced Auto Parts just didn't look right.
            The oil area was way near the top. I believe it should be in the middle. The Diameter is the same.
            I haven't been able to see any definitive pictures of an AMC lifter on the web yet.
            I have never heard a lifter have a random rattle when you let go the throttle.
            Usually its a tap tap sound that follows the RPM of the engine.

            With the oil grove near the top of the lifter, and using a slightly higher lift cam (RV cam) I may be driving the lifter above the lifter bore or away from the oil hole in the block causing a lack of oil pressure in the lifter and not being able to be pumped up at higher RPM.
            This would be disaster.

            Comment


            • #7
              a rattle when you let go of the throttle can also be a wrist pin (just another thing to check while you have it torn down)

              Comment


              • #8
                Sunday 23 of December I got my kids together and we remove the intake from the engine. We pulled and replaced each of the lifters. The model number of the lifters is HA2011. None of the lifters were pushed to high in their bore and they had shown no wear on the bottom or sides. We installed a new valley gasket. It was near impossible to get a torque wrench on all the bolts with everything installed on the intake manifold, but I tightened all the bolts using a few torqued bolts to gauge my tension.
                Started up the engine and the same exact noise is still there!
                Monday evening I pulled out the old valley gasket to examine it. I noticed there are marks on two areas of the Valley pan. The marks are from the PCV can/cover on the bottom of the intake manifold. I think this is where my noise is coming form. The valley pan is hitting the PCV can/cover. When I used the stethoscope, I heard the noise quite well at the base of the carb. Maybe pressures inside the engine is causing the valley pan to vibrate and its tapping the PCV can/cover.
                When the weather gets better I'm going to take the intake back off and put some sealant along the areas where the two are touching. Maybe this will stop the noise.
                Last edited by davpratt; 12-26-2012, 05:48 AM.

                Comment

                Working...
                X